North-Carolina based Florence Dore is a singer-songwriter, a musician, an author, an academic who teaches creative writing, song writing and literature at the University of North Carolina, and a mother. She released her debut album PERFECT CITY back in 2002. Blending punk, folk and country, it earned her comparisons with Lucinda Williams, Laura Cantrell and Liz Phair. Her second album, HIGHWAYS AND ROCKETSHIPS, was released earlier this year on the Propellor Sound Recordings label. We were present when Florence and her band featured the songs from the album at a knockout gig at Dee’s Country Cocktail Lounge in Madison, a suburb of Nashville, during Americana Fest recently. Those band members were Mark Spencer of Son Volt on guitar and two members of The dB’s, her husband Will Rigby on drums and Gene Holder on bass. Here Florence fills us in about the time gap between her albums, her early days growing up in Nashville, her academic career and her rediscovered passion for songwriting.
I understand that you were born and raised in Nashville.
Yes, I grew up in Nashville, my father taught at Vanderbilt and met my mom there. My grandmother grew up next door to Minnie Pearl, who ended up being my cousin through marriage.
Were you into the music scene there growing up?
Yes, I was, even as a small child. I mention that in the intro to the book that I wrote titled THE INK IN THE GROOVES, which refers to the writing in the grooves of the records, it’s about rock and literature, which are my two passions. Music was in the air back then; my mom was into Bob Dylan and The Band. The song Rebel Debutante on the new album talks about E.R.A. and Dylan on the radio, growing up there and the Robert Altman movie Nashville. That’s my Nashville, when I see that movie, I think of the early 70s empty vibe downtown. I had a session guy who was my guitar teacher when I eventually got lessons and he actually took me to see Linda Ronstadt in concert. My mom took us out of school when I was in the second grade to see Johnny Cash play at Opryland. I had an academic dad, he was a philosophy professor, so we were not a rock and roll or musicians’ family, but I was obsessed with artists like Crystal Gayle. I saw her play when I was a little kid. I grew up and started filling in the dots, to create the history and actually understand exactly what was happening in Nashville. When my dad talks about moving to Nashville, which he did in 1957, he says there was only one radio station there back then.
What changes do you particularly see when you return there?
The last time I spent a significant time in Nashville was when my husband Will was about to retire from playing with Steve Earle, having played drums for Steve for fifteen years. We went down there when our daughter was very young, she’s seventeen now. Will was working on Steve’s album TERRAPLANE BLUES, which was in 2015, and when I got to see Nashville, I realised exactly how much it had changed. I had previously moved back to Nashville after college with some friends and it was still that Robert Altman version of Nashville back then, deserted downtown but had a beautiful sort of fallen glory to it even though nothing was really happening there. Yet there was Tootsies and the old Ryman which wasn’t really being used but it still had these great storefronts selling old treasures and cool thrift stores. I remember buying old bricks from a building that had been decimated. When we stayed there when they were recording TERRAPLANE BLUES there were bachelorette parties crowding the streets and it just felt so commercialised. I’m glad for the booming industry but it definitely makes me a little sad. I do love Nashville.
You were pursuing an academic and artistic career when you released your debut album PERFECT CITY.
Yes, I was really doing both until I had our daughter. My husband Will was going on tour and I had health insurance and a regular income from my academic job and I love teaching undergraduates. But the real reason for the break from music was that I wanted to be a mom, two travelling musician parents is very hard on a child and I really wanted to be with her. The music industry is a hard place for women, generally. We’re told on the one hand that we can do everything and on another hand that we’ll neglect our kid. I tried to do one thing at a time.
Do your current students realise that you have a parallel career as a ‘rock chick’ as well as a lecturer, if that is not a politically incorrect description?
No, I’m perfectly cool with that, I’ll take it as a compliment. Now I actually teach songwriting and I made a record when the pandemic hit with three other people called COVER CHARGE, to support The Cat’s Cradle music venue, and I had one of my students on the record. I was telling a colleague of mine who teaches creative writing how different teaching creative writing is from teaching literature classes. He replied that when you’re teaching creative writing you are in among the students, which is true. You are vulnerable with them, we all become students of the song and it’s a lot less top down. HIGHWAYS AND ROCKETSHIPS came out in June so more of my students do know now, but that’s cool. I do try and bring rock and roll into the lectures anyway.
Do you find writing literature or songs more challenging?
I have never tried to write a novel, my books are all non-fiction, but all writing is difficult in some ways. When I just came home from being on tour for a month it took me a few days to get into writing mode again. I think that’s true for any king of writing – it is for me anyway as I have to re-enter the writing frame of mind. We are friends with The Mastersons, because they played with Steve Earle for many years, and they write when they are on the road because they have to with so much touring. I couldn’t do that, unless I had a tour manager to take care of all the other bullshit for me.
When were the songs on HIGHWAYS AND ROCKETSHIPS written?
The only song on the album that I wrote back in my last album THE PERFECT CITY days, was Sweet To Me and that song was about my grandmother. I really wanted to write another record and I was working on another project with Jefferson Holt, the former manager for REM, also known as their fifth member and an old friend of my husband. When he heard PERFECT CITY, his reaction was ‘holy fuck, let’s do that.’ So, I took about six months to write about twenty songs in 2019 and Jefferson put me in the studio with the other DBs including Chris Stamey, who I didn’t mention earlier, and from there we just decided which ones were the best. We recorded the album at Mitch Easter Studio in Connersville, North Carolina with Don Dixon, which is the same place where Don and Mitch Easter recorded those REM records.
You do say that your writing is autobiographical, but I don’t expect the song Rebel Debutante is.
You want to know something, that’s about my mother, she was a real rebel debutante. There are some fictionalised pieces in there, together with pieces that are completely true as well (laughs). One thing about returning to write songs, I realised that you ought to take some poetic licence. It’s not always about telling your own truth, it’s about telling a truth. When we were out on tour we drove through Oklahoma and Arkansas which I hadn’t done before. There are a lot of Trump supporters out there and people who are allured by fascism and that led me to try to write a song about someone that is out in the middle of nowhere and feels forgotten and how that frame of mind can be manipulated by people like Donald Trump.
Your show at Dee’s Cocktail Lounge during Americana Fest in Nashville was one of the highlights of our annual trip to the festival. Is that your regular touring band?
That was our favourite show of the tour. When you’re on stage the energy and positivity coming from the audience really matters and you were all bringing the love, we had a great show there. Because I’m married to Will Rigby, I’m in The dB’s’ family, so Will is my drummer. Mark Spencer is an old friend from back when I used to play in New York a bunch, and he’s my touring guitarist also on the record. Peter Holsapple, who is one of the other songwriters in The dB’s, plays guitar on the record. He mentored me in coming back into music. Gene Holder, who is also in The dB’s, doesn’t normally tour at all but Will told me to ask him if he would come along with us and everyone was shocked that he agreed and he’s coming on the next tour and is totally into it. On the record, we had Jeremy Chatzky on bass, but that was our regular touring band.
Would you recommend your students pursue a literary or artistic path by way of career advice?
It’s practically impossible surviving as a musician these days and it’s also getting increasingly difficult to make money as a teacher, people are devaluing the arts. But I say ‘go for it.’ You have to try, otherwise, we are going to kill it, we can’t all be bankers or lawyers. I used to be much more practical in giving my students advice but it matters so much in life that people continue to create art.
Given your parallel careers what two current writers and musicians are impressing you mostly?
Two writers, Roddy Doyle, I love his writing, and over here in the States, Lorrie Moore. She has a collection of stories called Birds of America, which is brilliant and my favourite of her books. She makes all kinds of rock and roll references in her writing. The singer songwriter that I love right now is Daniel Romano, he is an absolute machine and has so much music. Luckily, my husband Will culls Daniel’s music for me. I feel like a late comer to the party but I’m really enjoying Margo Price’s music as well, particularly her debut album.
We’re hardly going to wait another twenty years for your next album.
No, because I’m too old to have any more children (laughs). I’m actually working on songs for the next album right now. I don’t know what the timing will be, that’s up to my record label but I want to have twelve songs ready to go so that we can go ahead and start recording whenever they are ready. I’m extremely privileged to have an amazing label behind me. Jefferson Holt, who supported me when I returned to writing songs, has started a label, Propellor Sound Recordings in Nashville together with a guy called Jay Coyle. That label is about to also put out early DBs stuff that’s never been released before.
Interview by Declan Culliton